it didn't seem to have that much of an impact on the economy. what can we expect if republicans do decide to use that same tactic again? >> oh, i think we can expect a real economic chaos. the reason why things worked out okay last night was because we actually increased the debt ceiling at the end of the day. the president has been very clear that he's not going to be manipulated like that this time, and i think the idea of holding this economy hostage like that, again, i've been emphasizing in all comments so far makes particularly no sense with the economy improving a he bit. remember, if you're a debt holder and you're holding u.s. debt and we default, i mean, imagine what that -- what kind of message that sends. what it does to interest rates. in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 w